penmage | On AmazonFail

I've spent the day shaking my head at AmazonFail. Obviously because it is just wrong, but also because it just didn't make any sense to me. It just didn't make sense to me why Amazon--Amazon, of all places--would choose to do this. I know, homophobia never makes sense logically--but here even moreso.

But it had to be true, right? I mean, the sales rankings were gone, and then there was the text of the reply to Mark Probst from Amazon customer service:

In consideration of our entire customer base, we exclude "adult" material from appearing in some searches and best seller lists. Since these lists are generated using sales ranks, adult materials must also be excluded from that feature.

So it was clearly happening. And it was clearly Not Okay.

But I was still puzzling over the Why.

And then, finally, I was linked to this. Which may just be a cop-out for Amazon, but my gut tells me that it makes more sense than Amazon developing a sudden case of rabid homophobia.

I'm not saying they didn't. And if I was about to make a purchase from Amazon, I would still be holding off until I found out the truth. I am reserving judgment until I have more information.

But it makes sense. Let's say Amazon decided that it made sense to remove actual adult materials from its search criterion. Which--I don't agree with that kind of censorship either, but that kind of marketing decision I can understand. What I can't understand is randomly deciding to categorize GLBTQ literature as "adult."

Ah. But the response to Mark Probst doesn't address GLBTQ lit. It reads like a form response to a standard policy explaining the policy on adult content.

And my gut tells me that there's something fishy about the whole thing, and a massive trolling--as insidious and effective as the google bomb used to fight it--that makes sense to me.

Just something to consider.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I think someone's been working on it, behind the scenes, FWIW. Despite a complete stonewalling by live customer service, all my own listings have now returned.

Not that I won't remain pissy about it until they relist every de-ranked author properly.

From the post you linked: It's obvious Amazon has some sort of automatic mechanism that marks a book as "adult" after too many people have complained about it.

I don't see what makes that obvious, and quite frankly that doesn't make technical sense. There's nothing on a product page that lets one directly complain about a specific item, which would be necessary for that sort of trolling.

Of course if it is true, that's an incredibly and deeply stupid policy on the part of Amazon.

It'd be nice if that was the answer, but - hmm. It doesn't sit right with me.

Edited 2009-04-13 02:40 (UTC)

I am not denying that there's some deep stupidity on the part of Amazon. But a sudden raging case of homophobia--that just doesn't sit right with me.

I would not be surprised if the truth behind all this was a little of this, a little of that--but something about it all feels off. Like there's something else going on behind the scenes.

No, I know what you mean - and I do expect there are quite a few factors that went into this. I definitely don't think Amazon suddenly, as a high-level strategic move, made it company policy to be homophobic. My gut-level feeling is that someone in middle-management made an incredibly stupid and uninformed decision about keywords and/or tags and their applicability to adult content. But, we'll see - or we won't, and that's going to be the worst part of this, because I don't foresee getting a real answer from them and that is frustrating.

I mean, as long as things go back to normal, I'll keep shopping there - but I would definitely prefer an honest explanation. And unless they explain what "glitch" caused this, I won't feel like we've gotten one.

This is my feeling, as well: that the "glitch" was someone in middle management. Despite a company's leanings, no business has an absolute monoculture. Amazon as a whole likely did not turn into raging homophobics, but it's entirely possible that someone there is (or is a complete idiot, anyway), and that someone was responsible for the mess.

The trolling/bantown thing also doesn't quite make sense to me because of this: how many complaints must one send about just one book before it is removed? Multiply that by the huge list of books affected, and it becomes absolutely ridiculous.

Sounds like someone trying to manage a database with inadequate knowledge of both the database and the concept of GLBTQ - as in, trying to accomplish a relatively complex result in a search algorithm by doing something very very crude with database categories, based on the assumption that "gay" means "hardcore pornographic." Hence distinction between GLBTQ stuff and straight stuff; they realise that straight has subtleties, but apparently don't realise that for GLBTQ.

Speaking crankily, the one of mine they de-listed was the one WITHOUT the lesbian sex -- it just has gender fluidity -- so I believe they must either have a) not gotten to A Verse from Babylon before the crapstorm happened, or b) been doing it at least partially by author.

well, sub "pretty" for "very very," then...I mean obviously whatever they're doing is highly automated, they can't have actually read the books in question...at a guess if you tinker with the book database and select data based on a very imperfect understanding of, you know, the idea that the same person can write academic books and erotica, and that neither of those is the same as hardcore horse porn aimed at kiddies...so you tag based on author and keywords and stuff and try to do something that would probably be quite clever if it had worked properly, except that oops it didn't, and what you get is this...sorry am rambling, procrastination ftw...

I'm still going round on this. Because it doesn't make sense or fit their policies as far as I know them otherwise.

And yet, I just got this email,

Hello,

Thanks for contacting us. We recently discovered a glitch in our systems and it's being fixed.

Thanks again for contacting us. We hope to see you again soon.

And, well, it's kind of lacking the horrified, "We're so sorry, we're doing all we can to see that it doesn't happen again" that belongs there.

I'm not ready to pull my Amazon links. (Which are alongside Powells and IndieBound ones these days.) But I am being watchful and may do so yet.

I'll admit, I deleted my Wish List when I started reading about this whole ordeal. I may consider going back, but I won't until the ratings do, and a nice explanation/apology to the community would be lovely.

Sadly, it also smacks of that POD scandal they had a while back, so I don't know if I can trust them again.

[You probably don't know me. And mostly this was comment was a way to stay on topic before I proclaim "Icon Loooove!" at you. Cause it's good to be on topic. >.> ]

I don't think I know you! Am I supposed to?

Either way, nice to meet you :). And thanks!

Nope! And it's nice to meet you too.

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